Questions and Answers

Have a Lookout Question?

This page is dedicated to answering general Lookout questions.

Questions and Answers will be listed below sorted by date. Replies will be posted for the benefit of all. If you do not want your questions posted, please indicate this when you ask.

E-Mail your Questions to the FFLA Answerman at:

fflaans@yahoo.com

The FFLA Answerman, Henry Isenberg, (FFLA Co-Founder and Director of the Southern New England FFLA Chapter) will be happy to answer your questions.

Anyone who would like to answer a question can also respond to the webmaster, bill.cobb@erols.com.

Date: 2/10/2004
From: Doug Kratzer (dmkratzer@hotmail.com)
Subject: concrete pier inscriptions

With regard to the inscriptions sometimes found on the sides of concrete piers supporting steel derrick type lookout towers:

1) Has anyone tried to remove and take home the portions of the piers containing the inscriptions (which may say who built the tower, when it was built, by what agency, etc.) which were formed into the sides of the piers during the concrete pour?

2) What methods were used to preserve and display these inscriptions, especially how they were cleaned up and prepared for their new location?

Any information on how surfaces were treated, what kind of mounting was built, etc. would be helpful.

Thanks,

Doug Kratzer

Date: 6/12/2003
From: Bob Hawthorne OutdoorBob@aol.com
Subject: Dismantling Fire Tower

I just received award of my bid for the White Oak Mt Fire Tower in VA. I believe Aermotor Co. manufactured the tower sometime after 1930. It is listed as a 100' tower with a 7' x 7' room on top. It is actually 80' to the floor of the room. I now have 60 days to dismantle it.
I am not planning on using a crane because of power lines I'm not sure you could get a crane situated. I think I have a pretty good plan to dismantle but would appreciate any input from
anyone out there that has experience taking a tower down.

Bob Hawthorne

FFLA Answerman wrote: (6/12/03)

Dear Bob,
I hope that you also plan on reassembling this tower somewhere else. It would be a shame to lose this piece of history. The Aermotor designed towers were built to be dismantled and rebuilt very easily, but without the plans it can be a pain. The hardest part is the 7x7 cab, as a lot of the parts were riveted instead of screwed together. I have taken a few down and I proceeded in this manner:
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1)I marked each cab peice with identifying marks so I could reassemble them without any mistakes
2) Took out the windows and frames
3) Took off the 4 sections of the roof
4) Took off roof braces
5) Took down each wall, bracing each inside with 2x4's to the floor to prevent collapse
6) Using different paint colors, color code each of the towers sections from top to bottom, double color the different section joints for an easier reconnection
7) Took apart the floor and door, you may wish to throw out the wood from the floor, landings and stairs and replace them with new wood.

Make sure you measure everything that has to do with these parts so they can be re-cut to the
proper sizes. Also when you have the re-cut, give yourself extra because with the tower shifting, wood rot and steel swell, the precut wood does not always fit right. Best wood to use for this job is "green" Oak and then using your own wood preservative on it, the green wood will be stronger then even the best pre-treated wood and using a good wood preservator yourself will make it last longer!

8) Now, took off each section always starting with the staircases as they were the heaviest part of the section. I used a block and takle setup to send things down and tools up. I always used safty belts to prevent myself from falling off as well.

Where or is there anything inside this tower? equipment, records, maps, ect.?? if you do not plan on saving these or this tower, our group is a non profit entity and if you have no use for them we could preserve them for histories sake and you could get a tax break for your donation. I will cc this email onto our national offices in VA., please also feel free to call and talk to our chairman Keith Argow at his office, i'm sure he'd enjoy speaking with you about your tower. If I can be of any further service please feel free to contact me again.

Henry Isenberg, FFLA Answerman

Date: 4/29/2003
From: Ron Martin (martin@saferinternet.com)
Subject: L4 Cabs

Are there any L-4 cabs east of the Mississippi?

Date: 3/2/2003
From: Ken Jordan (kcjordan@outrageous.net)
Subject: USFS lookouts

The word out is that all the USFS lookouts are going to contract basis. Any info about that?

Date: 2/15/2003
From: Mike Murphy (murph@conwaycorp.net)
Subject: Ground Cabin blueprints

We have on our family property the concrete foundation remains of an old firetower and ground cabin constructed by the CCC in 1938-1939 in central Arkansas. We are planning on building a one room hunting cabin there and want to pay homage to the architectural styles of the tower ground cabins built by the CCC in that era. Does anyone have insight on where to find some basic plans/blueprints for tower ground cabins? Even though we suspect that "our" particular cabin was a simple frame structure, we were interested in other styles used in this area of the country by the CCC. I have read where the CCC sometimes used the same
basic designs, but the forest service does not have any available.

Thanks for any direction.

Smoke (Michael A.) Pfeiffer wrote: (2/16/03)

In Arkansas, the CCC does not appear to have built any CABINS. There is a standing HOUSE for for the lookout and/or their family to live in at both Mt. Magazine and Sugarloaf if one is looking for examples. There were only a few live-in western style towers with external catrwalks such as Fairview. Some towers such as Horn Tower & Push Mountain had no associated cabins. Local people would rive to the tower site for work everyday. The FFLA directors saw Horn Tower, Push Mountain and Sugarloaf Mountain towers at the annual directors meeting in January 2001. The public affairs staff currently has the lookout tower photo files but several other towers on the national forests had associated house. A couple of Archaeological site forms show the foundations of old houses associated with lookout towers. As I recall, the foundations do very little to help figure out the floor
plan of the hosue except where the concrete stairs were located.

Date: 3/16/2002
From: Brit M Rasmussen (bmrasmussen@fs.fed.us)
Subject: Squirrel Cards

I work on the Pike National Forest in Colorado where we have the Devil's Head Lookout and we hand out the Ancient and Honorable Order of the Squirrel cards to our patrons who make it to the top. Do you know the history of the card and any other lookouts that still use it?

Date: 3/13/2002
From: Bob (lookout18@juno.com)

Subject: STAN HELIO

Does anyone happen to have any information, or photos of a "STAN HELIO" Reflector. These were used during survey work in the Adirondacks by Verplanck colvin and several were mounted on the roofs of fire towers. One still remains, I believe on the Catherdral Rock tower at the State Ranger school in Wanakena, NY. If possible, I'd like to construct a facsmile of one.

Date: 1/2/2002
From: FFLA
Subject: First female lookout in the country

We are looking for the first female lookout in the country. Anyone have any ideas? If so, please email us with information and any pictures.

Thanks,

FFLA

Greg Flynn wrote: (3/7/02)

The first female observer in North Carolina was Bessie H Haithcock in Warren County. Some information is available at: http://www.firetower.org/listings/us214.html

More detailed information can be obtained from:
Warren County Ranger Ricky Bryant
NC Division of Forest Resources
Route 3, Box 35
Warrenton, NC 27589-9201
Phone: 252-257-5960
E-mail: dfr590@mail.vance.net

Brit M. Rasmussen wrote: (2/27/02)

According to our history we had the first women lookout in the United States but would be interested if anyone has different iformation. Helen Dowe worked Devil's Head Lookout starting in the summer of 1919 and worked until 1921. I have some pictures but
none that I can email at this time but I will work on it.

Scott M Gausen wrote: (2/19/02)

I was under the impression that the first female lookout was Hallie Dagget on Eddy Gulch Lookout on the Klamath National Forest on the Salmon River District.

Date: 3/19/2000; Updated 4/19/2000
From: Gerrit Remmerde (gerrit@oregontrail.net)
Subject: Oldest Man or Woman

Hello,

I think it would interesting to know about some of the oldest folks manning lookouts, (since I might go for the record). Has anyone collected information on the subject?

Thanks,

Gerrit Remmerde

FFLA Answerman:

Hey Bill
How about putting this question out to everyone on the web for an answer?
Henry

Ok folks, send all of your answers to me at bill.cobb@erols.com and I will post them here!

Date: 4/9/2000
From: Pete Carron (pete.c@easy-pages.com)
Subject: RE:Oldest Man or Woman

With regard to Gerrit Remmerde's question regarding the oldest living fire lookout person, I think I may be able to help.

Dixon Miller is 89 years old and mans the Pohopoco Fire Tower on Pimple Hill in Pennsylvania. He started with the fire service just after the end of World War II and is the oldest employee of the PA Dept of Natural Resources.

A number of different articles on Dixon Miller can be found by visiting the Morning Call Newspaper (Allentown PA) web site at www.mcall.com.

Look under "Archives." Then search under "Dixon Miller" in different year's archives. One of the most comprehensive articles on him was run in 1991. I hope this helps.

Pete Carron

Date: 2/29/2000
From: David Rackmales (RACKMALESD@Bondsteel2.Areur.Army.mil)
Subject: Fire Tower Design

Are there any publications on designing fire and lookout towers?

FFLA Answerman:

David,
There have been some guidelines published over the years but, they were mostly either from the makers of these towers or the federal or state governments specs that they were requiring of the makers. Most of the tower manufactureres that we know of are long out of business. Your best bet would be to search for these rare government papers on the internet or a federal records site. Since most towers were built from the early 1900's thru today, you can imagine the number of different tower designs. There are thousands of them, everything from one story log buildings to 175' steel towers. Some with peaked roofs, hip roofs, flat roofs, with catwalks, with trap doors, with ladders,inside stairs, outside stairs, it's a very large field with so many variations, I wish I could give you a better answer but this is all we know at this point.

Henry Isenberg FFLA Answerman